Morning Seminar

We looked at the story of Dong Shan and his enlightenment encounter with his teacher. We saw how
1. the teacher disrupted the attitude of the disciple and presented himself just as a human being, rather than advertising himself. In therapy the counsellor needs to have a humble attitude toward herself but also needs the boldness to avoid getting into a position of collusion with the client over matters that are not true.
2. the realisation came to the disciple later after he had thought about the interaction - in the same way if counselling is good the client goes on working on the issue afterwards; it is not a case of having everything tidied up before the end of the interview.
3. the teacher did not make things comfortable for the disciple. It is not a matter of just giving the client a comfortable experience.
4. nonetheless, the teacher shows great fellow-feeling with the disciple. He treats him as on a level, not talking down to him.

We discussed how one has a concern for the other but also a need to take care of oneself. However this seeming conflict is resolved by an over-arching motivation to investigate the truth of situations for self and other alike.

Loyalty to the truth transcends self and other.

This means achieving some objectivity about one’s own condition as well as that of the client.

Social Atom

We did some action work looking at family constellations. This gives a sense of how the balance of interpersonal influences affects a person’s life and feeling. It shows how literal and metaphorical distance makes a great deal of difference to one’s experience of wellbeing. In counselling the counsellor needs to get a sense of these patterns and how they affect the client and to know how to change them or experiment with them. Several of the scenarios developed into mini psychodramas.

We saw how therapy can go wrong
- when one is pressing for a “happy ending” and ignoring the truth
- when one is taking the side of a significant other rather than that of the client
- when one passes moral judgement upon the thoughts or actions of the client

If the client shares things that are important and intimate and the therapist pushes him to change them, implying that he is somehow “wrong”, the client will feel misunderstood and the work may be worse than useless.  These things make the therapy environment unsafe.

We also saw how strong feelings can be induced by taking a role in another person’s scenario. This may be due to the particular sensitivity of the person taking the role, but it is very likely to be that they are picking up important influences in the scenario of the protagonist. This may give the protagonist important new information.

There is always an optimum distance between the subject and the rupa but this is seldom stable for long because it is also true for all the participants individually and as any one changes it has a knock on effect for all of the others.

====

We reflected on the phrase
“fancy words are rupa - lead straight into the dirt”
This can be taken as a warning not to use overly sophisticated language in order to show off, and this will be the original meaning, but as counsellors we can reflect that we need to get straight into the dirt. In order to help the client we need to reach the “dirt” as quickly as possible and this will be affected by the language we choose.

Some language reduces the “distance” to the material and other styles increase the distance. We can think of the example of reading a bedtime story to a child. The pitch or distancing of the language and mode of expression needs to be such as to hold the child’s attention without scaring him. If the language is too flat the child will be bored. If it is too expressive the child may have nightmares. Similarly in counselling. If we choose language that is graphic, in the present tense, with concrete examples and reference, this will reduce the distance. If we talk in an abstract, intellectual way, in the past tense, in vague language, this will increase the distance. Depending upon the case, one might sometimes need to increase distance, sometimes reduce it. A client who has experienced major trauma, for instance, might be in an under-distanced condition, reliving the experience with a vividness and urgency that disrupts his life. However, the majority of clients are more likely to be in an over-distanced condition and need to get closer to their material in order to deal with it. In this latter case, the therapist’s language should be no less graphic than that of the client and perhaps more so. This will not only help the client to enter more fully into the issue, it will also help the therapist to warm herself up to the client’s condition.

===

We had a brief look at the theory of congruent and dissonant social triangles and saw how even in a moderately complex social situation such s a family, dissonance starting in one part of the system can be rapidly transmitted to other parts. This can leave people in those remote parts of the system discomforted but having no insight into how or why. Thus a client might come into therapy aware that something has changed in his life, but with no real possibility of understanding the root of the problem which lies elsewhere in the social system. Occasionally the therapist may be able to help trace the source, but on other occasions one has simply to help the client to reach a point of acceptance and avoid taking responsibility for, or feeling guilty about, things over which he had no control.

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20180816 Course Two Day Three (middle day of 15 day training)

Posted by David Brazier on August 16, 2017 at 14:06 in KOREA 2017

 

https://eleusis.ning.com/group/korea/forum/topics/course-two-day-three-middle-day-of-15-day-training

 

Translated into Korean by Jaesung Kim

번역: 김재성

 

 

Morning Seminar

 

We looked at the story of Dong Shan and his enlightenment encounter with his teacher. We saw how

1. the teacher disrupted the attitude of the disciple and presented himself just as a human being, rather than advertising himself. In therapy the counsellor needs to have a humble attitude toward herself but also needs the boldness to avoid getting into a position of collusion with the client over matters that are not true.

2. the realisation came to the disciple later after he had thought about the interaction - in the same way if counselling is good the client goes on working on the issue afterwards; it is not a case of having everything tidied up before the end of the interview.

3. the teacher did not make things comfortable for the disciple. It is not a matter of just giving the client a comfortable experience.

4. nonetheless, the teacher shows great fellow-feeling with the disciple. He treats him as on a level, not talking down to him.

 

오전 세미나

 

우리는 동산(洞山)의 이야기와 그의 스승(운암)과의 만남을 통한 깨달음을 보았다. 우리는 어떻게 보았는가?

1. 스승은 제자의 태도를 흔들어놓았고, 그 자신을 선전하는 것이 아니라 그저 인간임을 제시했다. 치료에서 상담자는 자신에 대한 겸손한 태도를 취할 필요가 있지만 또한 사실이 아닌 문제에 대해 내담자와의 동조의 위치에 들어가는 것을 피하기 위해 담대함을 필요로 한다.

2. 깨달음의 실현은 동산이 상호작용에 대해 생각한 후, 나중에 제자에게 왔다. 같은 방식으로 상담이 좋으면 내담자가 상담이후에 문제에 대한 작업을 계속한다. 만남이 끝나기 전에 모든 것이 깔끔하게 정돈되는 것은 아니다.

3. 스승은 제자를 위해 편한 것들을 만들지 않았다. 내담자에게 편안한 경험을 제공하는 것은 중요하지 않다.

4. 그럼에도 불구하고, 스승은 제자에게 큰 동료 감각을 보여준다. 스승은 제자를 어느 단계에 이른 존재 인정하며 제자를 내려 보고 이야기하지 않는다.

 

We discussed how one has a concern for the other but also a need to take care of oneself. However this seeming conflict is resolved by an over-arching motivation to investigate the truth of situations for self and other alike.

우리는 사람이 어떻게 타자에 대한 관심을 가지는지 또한 자기 자신을 돌볼 필요성에 대해 토론했다. 그러나 이 겉으로 드러난 갈등은 자기 자신과 타자에 대한 상황의 진실을 조사하려는 아주 중요한 동기에 의해 해결된다.

 

Loyalty to the truth transcends self and other.

 

This means achieving some objectivity about one’s own condition as well as that of the client.

 

진실에 대한 충성은 자기와 타자를 초월한다.

 

이것은 내담자의 상태뿐만 아니라 자기 자신의 상태에 대해서 어떤 객관성을 이룬 것을 의미한다.

 

Social Atom

 

We did some action work looking at family constellations. This gives a sense of how the balance of interpersonal influences affects a person’s life and feeling. It shows how literal and metaphorical distance makes a great deal of difference to one’s experience of wellbeing. In counselling the counsellor needs to get a sense of these patterns and how they affect the client and to know how to change them or experiment with them. Several of the scenarios developed into mini psychodramas.

 

사회적 원자

 

우리는 가족 위치를 바라보는 행동을 했다. 이것은 대인 관계의 균형이 어떻게 사람의 삶과 느낌에 영향을 주는지에 대한 감각을 제공한다. 그것은 문자 그대로의 거리와 은유적 거리가 어떻게 안녕(wellbeing)에 대한 경험에 큰 차이를 가져 오는지 보여준다. 치료자는 상담에서 이러한 패턴에 대한 감각을 느끼고 그들이 내담자에게 어떤 영향을 미치는지, 그리고 어떻게 그들을 변화시키거나 그들과 함께 실험할 수 있는지 알아야한다. 여러 가지 시나리오가 미니 심리극으로 발전했다.

 

We saw how therapy can go wrong

- when one is pressing for a “happy ending” and ignoring the truth

- when one is taking the side of a significant other rather than that of the client

- when one passes moral judgement upon the thoughts or actions of the client

 

우리는 치료가 잘못 될 수 있음을 보았다.

- "행복한 결말"에 압박을 받고 진실을 무시할 때

- 내담자가 보다도 중요한 타자의 편을 들때

- 내담자의 생각이나 행동에 대한 도덕적 판단을 전달할 때

 

If the client shares things that are important and intimate and the therapist pushes him to change them, implying that he is somehow “wrong”, the client will feel misunderstood and the work may be worse than useless. These things make the therapy environment unsafe.

내담자는 중요하고 친밀한 것을 공유하며, 그가 어떤 면에서 "잘못임"을 암시하면서, 치료자가 그를 변화시키려고 밀어 붙인다면, 내담자는 오해를 느끼고 치료 작업은 쓸모없는 것보다 더 나쁠 수 있다. 이러한 것들은 치료 환경을 안전하지 않게 만든다.

 

We also saw how strong feelings can be induced by taking a role in another person’s scenario. This may be due to the particular sensitivity of the person taking the role, but it is very likely to be that they are picking up important influences in the scenario of the protagonist. This may give the protagonist important new information.

우리는 또한 다른 사람의 시나리오에서 역할을 취함으로써 얼마나 강한 감정이 유도될 수 있는지를 보았다. 이것은 역할을 맡은 사람의 특별한 민감성 때문일 수 있지만, 그들이 주인공의 시나리오에서 중요한 영향력을 포착하고 있을 가능성이 매우 높다. 이것은 주인공에게 중요한 새로운 정보를 줄 수 있다.

 

There is always an optimum distance between the subject and the rupa but this is seldom stable for long because it is also true for all the participants individually and as any one changes it has a knock on effect for all of the others.

주인공과 루빠 사이에는 항상 최적의 거리가 있지만, 이 안정은 거의 오래가지 못한다. 왜냐하면 그것은 모든 참여자에게 개별적으로 진실한 것이며, 어떤 하나의 사항이 변화할 때, 모든 타자들에게 그 영향을 주기 때문이다.

====

 

We reflected on the phrase

“fancy words are rupa - lead straight into the dirt”

This can be taken as a warning not to use overly sophisticated language in order to show off, and this will be the original meaning, but as counsellors we can reflect that we need to get straight into the dirt. In order to help the client we need to reach the “dirt” as quickly as possible and this will be affected by the language we choose.

우리는 문구를 돌아보았다.

"멋진 말은 루빠(rupa)이다. 진흙 속으로 곧바로 이끌어라.

이것은 지나치게 정교한 언어를 사용하지 말라는 경고로 받아들여질 수 있다. 이것이 원래의 의미일 것이다. 그러나 치료자로서 우리는 우리가 진흙에 곧장 들어갈 필요가 있음을 반영할 수 있다. 내담자를 돕기 위해 우리는 가능한 한 빨리 "진흙" 속에 도착해야하며 이는 우리가 선택한 언어의 영향을 받을 것이다.

 

Some language reduces the “distance” to the material and other styles increase the distance. We can think of the example of reading a bedtime story to a child. The pitch or distancing of the language and mode of expression needs to be such as to hold the child’s attention without scaring him. If the language is too flat the child will be bored. If it is too expressive the child may have nightmares. Similarly in counselling. If we choose language that is graphic, in the present tense, with concrete examples and reference, this will reduce the distance. If we talk in an abstract, intellectual way, in the past tense, in vague language, this will increase the distance. Depending upon the case, one might sometimes need to increase distance, sometimes reduce it. A client who has experienced major trauma, for instance, might be in an under-distanced condition, reliving the experience with a vividness and urgency that disrupts his life. However, the majority of clients are more likely to be in an over-distanced condition and need to get closer to their material in order to deal with it. In this latter case, the therapist’s language should be no less graphic than that of the client and perhaps more so. This will not only help the client to enter more fully into the issue, it will also help the therapist to warm herself up to the client’s condition.

어떤 언어는 소재에의 "거리"를 줄이고, 다른 스타일은 거리를 늘린다. 우리는 잠자리에서 들려주는 이야기를 아이에게 읽어주는 예를 생각할 수 있다. 언어와 표현 방식의 고저나 거리는 말해주는 사람으 두려워하지 않으면서 어린이의 주의를 끌기위한 것이어야 한다. 언어가 너무 평이하다면 아이는 지루해질 것이다. 표현력이 너무 과장되면 아이가 악몽을 꾼다. 마찬가지로 상담에서는 현재 시제에서 구체적인 예와 참조와 함께 그림 같은 언어를 선택하면, 거리가 줄어든다. 과거 시제에서 모호한 언어로 추상적이고 지적인 방식으로 말하면 거리가 늘어난다. 경우에 따라 거리를 늘려야 할 때가 있고 때로는 거리를 줄여야 할 수도 있다. 예를 들어, 심각한 외상을 경험한 내담자는 삶의 질을 떨어뜨리는 선명함과 긴급함으로 경험을 되살리고 불안한 상황에 놓일 수 있는 가까운 거리에 있을 수 있다. 그러나 대다수의 내담자는 너무 먼 거리에 처할 가능성이 높고 이를 다루기 위해 자료에 더 가까워야져야 한다. 후자의 경우, 치료자의 언어는 내담자의 언어보다 덜 그림 같은 것이어야 하며 아마도 더 그렇게 해야한다. 이것은 내담자가 이 문제에 보다 더 깊이 들어갈 수 있도록 도울 뿐만 아니라 치료자가 내담자의 조건에 이르기까지 자신을 따뜻하게 해줄 것이다.

===

 

We had a brief look at the theory of congruent and dissonant social triangles and saw how even in a moderately complex social situation such s a family, dissonance starting in one part of the system can be rapidly transmitted to other parts. This can leave people in those remote parts of the system discomforted but having no insight into how or why. Thus a client might come into therapy aware that something has changed in his life, but with no real possibility of understanding the root of the problem which lies elsewhere in the social system. Occasionally the therapist may be able to help trace the source, but on other occasions one has simply to help the client to reach a point of acceptance and avoid taking responsibility for, or feeling guilty about, things over which he had no control.

우리는 일치하고 불협화음이 되는 사회 삼각형 이론에 대해 간략하게 살펴보고, 가족과 같은 중간 정도의 복잡한 사회 상황에서도 시스템의 한 부분에서 불협화음이 다른 부분으로 신속하게 전달될 수 있음을 보았다. 이로 인해 시스템의 먼 부분에 있는 사람들은 불편할 수 있지만 어떻게 그렇게 되었는지 그 이유는 무엇인지에 대한 통찰력은 없다. 따라서 내담자는 자신의 인생에서 어떤 것이 변화했지만, 사회 시스템의 다른 곳에 있는 문제의 근원을 이해할 실제 가능성 없이 치료에 접하게 될 것이다. 때로는 치료자가 출처를 추적하는 데 도움이 될 수도 있지만 다른 경우에는 내담자가 수용 할 수 있는 지점에 도달하고 그가 통제 할 수 없는 일에 대해 책임을 지거나 죄책감을 느끼는 것을 피하는 데 도움이 되는 경우가 있다.

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