Lecture
Reviewing basic attitude of the counsellor. We talked about "grandmother mind" - the attitude of the "archetypal grandmother". Grandmother mind is talked about in Zen as the correct attitude of the spiritual guide. This led to general remarks about empathy and “tuning in” in the client. One can use Buddhist concepts taking them as static categories and this is useful in the kinds of meditation where one aims to identify factors and set them aside or deconstruct elements of the self. However in psychology one needs a dynamic understanding that enables one to get inside the perspective of the client. This is like music. Music can be considered to consist of individual notes which is clear, for instance, when playing a piano. Each piano key is distinct. However the music does not exist in the notes. It exists in the relations between them. Only when the flow of a sequence of notes occurs do we experience music. In the same way the skandhas can be considered as individual notes or as contributing to a “tune”. In counselling we need to understand the client’s tune. each person has one or more “signature tunes”. Almost whatever they talk about they will be playing their tune, just as the same music can be played in different key or on different instruments but is recognisably the same melody. Empathy is thus a matter of tuning in. This tuning in does not necessarily mean agreeing. One should be able to empathise even with people one disagrees with.
Exercise in pairs and small groups
We then did an exercise identifying points of difference and working with the matter of empathising with contra-valuant points of view.
More detail on skandha process. We looked at children’s reactions to things. The vedana reaction is immediately apparent. The child’s reaction to different foods is strongly for or against. The adult, well-socialised person covers this up, but it is as if the child is still alive inside. The therapist picks up the telltale clues visible in the face or audible in the tone of voice. This enables us to know the client’s heart and world and how heart and world relate.
We looked at the example of working with a schizophrenic client. a mad person may have a very different experience of the world. Perhaps they experience dangers that we do not see. Perhaps there are evil forces or beings hidden in the room. Perhaps the person believes that by controlling his mind he can control these forces, but knows that he cannot control his mind completely. This is like living inside a nightmare. The world of the client is very different from that of the therapist, but the therapist tries to understand and feel how it is experienced by the client. The mad person is not different in kind from the sane person, simply different in degree. We are all a bit mad, each in our own way. We all think we can control things more than is realistic.
Small Discussion Groups
Input on language - difficulties in translating - client has idiosyncratic language and therapist also. Choice of terms reflects person al style or “signature tune”. Different words have different associations. Words are also rupas. We have reaction and associations with particular words. If we pick up key words - power words - in the vocabulary of the client then we can use or avoid these depending upon the effect we want to make in the dialogue. Words, being rupa, trigger states.
Questions
We discussed the issue of “burnout” or “compassion fatigue”. It is not really a matter of the therapist finding ways for self-protection, it is more a matter of learning to use all the energy that pertains to a session in that session and not carrying it away after the session has finished. This means being willing to share things before we really know what they mean. The inexperienced counsellor tends to hold back until confident that she is right in her interpretation, but this is usually too long and results in her carrying a load of emotion that never gets fully fed back into the session. This led to discussion of working with relatives of dying people in hospice situations where there may be many people all in various degrees of shock, emotion or denial and how the worker allows herself to be moved but not overwhelmed - the Buddhist art of equanimity.
Exercise
Imagine making a film of one’s life. This is an exercise in identifying important rupas and secondary rupas in one’s life. We draw up the cast for a film of our life. With each character there are typical lines that they would say and there are important scenes in which they figured. These come to one’s mind spontaneously as soon as one calls the image of the significant other (rupa) to mind. This is an exercise in identifying rupas, and also in free association. The counsellor needs to cultivate a free mind that can associate easily.
Counselling Practice
Talking about issues and feelings raised by the previous exercise.
Question
Q: I'm still not clear what is the meaning of "conditioning"?
A: Conditioning is support. In the ordinary mind, the rupa is the support. A person perceives the rupa and a corresponding state arises. To the person this feels as though the rupa caused that state and that this is an invariant relationship. However, the condition is only a support, it is not a cause in the strict sense. We can think of support in simple ways. When I am sitting in a certain position, it is only possible because there is a chair underneath me. The chair is a support. If the chair was not there I could not sustain that position. So the support is necessary, but it is not a determining cause. In other words, just because the chair is there does not mean that I have to sit on it. In the same way, the client, in therapy, may come to construe the object (rupa/condition) in a new way. Perhaps the person who always made one angry comes to be seen with respect. Seeing that person with respect one no longer feels angry. yet it is still the same person. This has a double effect. Firstly, the new state (respect) may be preferable to the old one (anger). More importantly, however, the client now knows in experience that there is more than one way to be with that rupa. If there is more than one there might be more than two. In other words, the client experiences freedom where previously he experienced being trapped. Before he was sure there was only one way to be with that rupa so the rupa controlled him. Now he realises that the rupa does not control him. Just because there is a chair there, one does not have to sit on it. In this way, we shall always live in a world full of conditions, but we can still achieve freedom within that world.
Replies
Question
Q: I'm still not clear what is the meaning of "conditioning"?
A: Conditioning is support. In the ordinary mind, the rupa is the support. A person perceives the rupa and a corresponding state arises. To the person this feels as though the rupa caused that state and that this is an invariant relationship. However, the condition is only a support, it is not a cause in the strict sense. We can think if support in simple ways. When I am sitting in a certain position, it is only possible because there is a chair underneath me. The chair is a support. If the chair was not there I could not sustain that position. So the support is necessary, but it is not a determining cause. In other words, just because the chair is there does not mean that I have to sit on it. In the same way, the client, in therapy, may come to construe the object (rupa/condition) in a new way. Perhaps the person who always made one angry comes to be seen with respect. Seeing that person with respect one no longer feels angry. yet it is still the same person. This has a double effect. Firstly, the new state (respect) may be preferable to the old one (anger). More importantly, however, the client now knows in experience that there is more than one way to be with that rupa. If there is more than one there might be more than two. In other words, the client experiences freedom where previously he experienced being trapped. Before he was sure there was only one way to be with that rupa so the rupa controlled him. Now he realises that the rupa does not control him. Just because there is a chair there, one does not have to sit on it. In this way, we shall always live in a world full of conditions, but we can still achieve freedom within that world.
질문
Q : "조건화"의 의미가 무엇인지 아직 명확하지 않습니다.
A : 조건화는 지지입니다. 보통의 마음에서는, 루빠가 지지입니다. 어떤 사람이 루빠를 감지하면 상응하는 상태가 발생합니다. 그 사람에게는 루빠가 그 상태를 야기 시켰고 이것이 변치않는 관계라고 느껴집니다. 그러나 조건은 단지 지지일 뿐이며, 엄격한 의미에서는 원인이 아닙니다. 우리는 단순한 방식으로 지지에 대해 생각할 수 있습니다. 내가 이렇게 특정한 자세(의자에 앉아있는 자세)로 앉아있을 때 그것은 내 밑에 의자가 있기 때문에 가능합니다. 의자는 지지입니다. 의자가 없다면 그 자세를 유지할 수 없습니다. 지지가 필요하지만 결정적인 원인은 아닙니다. 다른 말로 표현하자면 의자가 있다고 해서 그것이 내가 앉아 있어야한다는 것을 의미하지는 않습니다. 같은 방식으로, 치료에서 내담자는 새로운 방식으로 대상 (루빠/상태)을 해석할 수도 있습니다. 아마도 항상 A라는 사람을 화내게 하는 B라는 사람은 존경심과 함께 나타날 수 있습니다. B를 존경심을 가지고 볼 때, A는 더 이상 분노를 느끼지 않습니다. 그 사람은 여전히 같은 사람입니다. 이것은 두 가지 효과가 있습니다. 첫째, 새로운 상태 (존경)가 낡은 상태 (분노)보다 바람직 할 수 있습니다. 더 중요한 것은, 그러나, 내담자는 지금 그 루빠와 함께하는 방법이 하나 이상 있다는 것을 경험을 통해 알고 있습니다. 한 가지 이상이 있을 경우 둘 이상도 있을 수 있습니다. 다시 말해서, 내담자는 이전에는 그가 갇혀있었던 경험을 한 곳에서 자유를 경험합니다. 그가 확신하기 전에는, 그 루빠와 함께 할 수 있는 유일한 방법만이 있었고 그 때는 그 루빠가 그를 통제했습니다. 이제 그는 루빠가 그를 통제하지 않는다는 것을 깨닫습니다. 거기에 의자가 있기 때문에 앉을 필요가 없습니다. 이런 식으로 우리는 항상 조건이 충만한 세상에서 살지만, 우리는 그 세계 안에서 여전히 자유를 누릴 수 있습니다.
20170811 Course One: Day Five (final)
Posted by David Brazier on August 11, 2017 at 8:57 in KOREA 2017
Translated into Korean by Jaesung Kim
한글 번역: 김재성
Lecture 강의
Reviewing basic attitude of the counsellor. We talked about "grandmother mind" - the attitude of the "archetypal grandmother". Grandmother mind is talked about in Zen as the correct attitude of the spiritual guide. This led to general remarks about empathy and “tuning in” in the client. One can use Buddhist concepts taking them as static categories and this is useful in the kinds of meditation where one aims to identify factors and set them aside or deconstruct elements of the self. However in psychology one needs a dynamic understanding that enables one to get inside the perspective of the client. This is like music. Music can be considered to consist of individual notes which is clear, for instance, when playing a piano. Each piano key is distinct. However the music does not exist in the notes. It exists in the relations between them. Only when the flow of a sequence of notes occurs do we experience music. In the same way the skandhas can be considered as individual notes or as contributing to a “tune”. In counselling we need to understand the client’s tune. each person has one or more “signature tunes”. Almost whatever they talk about they will be playing their tune, just as the same music can be played in different key or on different instruments but is recognisably the same melody. Empathy is thus a matter of tuning in. This tuning in does not necessarily mean agreeing. One should be able to empathise even with people one disagrees with.
상담자의 기본 태도 검토. 우리는 "할머니 마음"- "전형적 할머니"의 태도에 대해 이야기했습니다. 할머니 마음은 영적 안내의 정확한 태도로서 선(禪)에서 이야기됩니다. 이것은 내담자에 대한 공감과 "동조"에 대한 일반적인 언급으로 연결됩니다. 우리는 정적(靜寂)인 범주로 간주되는 불교 개념들을 사용할 수 있으며, 이것은 요소들을 확인하고 자기를 구성하거나 자기를 해체하는 명상의 종류에 유용합니다. 그러나 심리학에서 우리는 내담자의 관점 안으로 들어가게 하는 역동적인 이해을 필요로 합니다. 이것은 음악과 같습니다. 예를 들어 음악은 피아노를 연주 할 때 명확한 개별 음으로 구성되는 것으로 간주될 수 있습니다. 각 피아노 건반은 구별됩니다. 그러나 음악은 음표 속에 존재하지 않습니다. 음악은 그들 사이의 관계에서 존재합니다. 일련의 음표의 연속적 흐름이 발생할 때에만 우리는 음악을 경험합니다. 같은 방식으로 스칸다는 개별적인 노트 또는 "곡"에 기여하는 것으로 간주될 수 있습니다. 상담에서 우리는 내담자의 소리를 이해할 필요가 있습니다. 각 사람은 하나 이상의 "주요 곡"을 가지고 있습니다. 거의 동일한 음악이 다른 건반이나 다른 악기에서 연주될 수 있지만 똑같은 멜로디인 것처럼, 그들이 말하는 것은 무엇이나 그들 자신의 곡을 연주하게 됩니다. 따라서 공감은 공조의 문제입니다. 이 공조정은 반드시 동의한다는 것을 의미하지는 않습니다. 우리는 의견이 맞지 않는 사람들을 공감할 수 있어야합니다.
Exercise in pairs and small groups
페어와 소그룹으로 운동하기
We then did an exercise identifying points of difference and working with the matter of empathising with contra-valuant points of view.
우리는 차이점을 밝히고 반대의 관점을 가진 사람을 공감하는 작업을 연습했습니다.
More detail on skandha process. We looked at children’s reactions to things. The vedana reaction is immediately apparent. The child’s reaction to different foods is strongly for or against. The adult, well-socialised person covers this up, but it is as if the child is still alive inside. The therapist picks up the telltale clues visible in the face or audible in the tone of voice. This enables us to know the client’s heart and world and how heart and world relate.
스칸다skandha 과정에 대한 자세한 내용. 우리는 사물에 대한 아이들의 반응을 보았했습니다. vedana 반응은 즉시 명백합니다. 다른 음식에 대한 어린이의 반응은 강력하게 찬성하거나 반대입니다. 성인이면서 사회화가 잘되어있는 사람은 이런 반응을 덮어둡니다. 그러나 마치 어린 아이처럼, 그 반응은 여전히 마음속에 살아 있습니다. 치료자는 얼굴에 보이는 것이나 목소리의 색조에서 들리는 것을 단서로 삼을 수 있습니다. 이를 통해 우리는 내담자의 가슴과 세상, 그리고 어떻게 가슴과 세상이 연관되어 있는지 알 수 있습니다.
We looked at the example of working with a schizophrenic client. a mad person may have a very different experience of the world. Perhaps they experience dangers that we do not see. Perhaps there are evil forces or beings hidden in the room. Perhaps the person believes that by controlling his mind he can control these forces, but knows that he cannot control his mind completely. This is like living inside a nightmare. The world of the client is very different from that of the therapist, but the therapist tries to understand and feel how it is experienced by the client. The mad person is not different in kind from the sane person, simply different in degree. We are all a bit mad, each in our own way. We all think we can control things more than is realistic.
우리는 조현증(정신분열증) 환자와 함께 작업하는 사례를 보았습니다. 미친 사람은 세상과 전혀 다른 경험을 할 수 있습니다. 아마도 그들은 우리가 보지 못하는 위험을 경험할 것입니다. 아마도 (그에게는) 사악한 세력이나 존재가 방안에 숨어있을 수 있습니다. 아마도 그 사람은 자신의 마음을 제어함으로써 이 힘을 통제 할 수는 있지만 자신의 마음을 완전히 통제 할 수 없다는 것을 알고 있을 것입니다. 이것은 악몽 속에 사는 것과 같습니다. 내담자의 세계는 치료자의 세계와 매우 다르지만 치료자는 내담자가 어떻게 경험 하는지를 이해하고 느끼려고 합니다. 미친 사람은 제정신인 사람과 다른 부류가 아닙니다. 단지 정도의 차이가 있을 뿐입니다. 우리는 모두 우리 자신의 방식대로 조금씩 미쳐있습니다. 우리 모두는 실재적인 것보다 사물을 더 많이 통제 할 수 있다고 생각합니다.
Small Discussion Groups
Input on language - difficulties in translating - client has idiosyncratic language and therapist also. Choice of terms reflects personal style or “signature tune”. Different words have different associations. Words are also rupas. We have reaction and associations with particular words. If we pick up key words - power words - in the vocabulary of the client then we can use or avoid these depending upon the effect we want to make in the dialogue. Words, being rupa, trigger states.
소규모 토론 그룹
언어로 입력하기 - 번역의 어려움 - 내담자는 독특한 언어를 사용하고 치료자도 마찬가지 입니다. 용어의 선택은 개인적 스타일이나 "대표적 공조"을 반영합니다. 서로 다른 단어에는 서로 다른 연상이 있습니다. 단어도 루빠입니다. 우리에게는 특정한 단어들에 대한 반응과 연상이 있습니다. 내담자의 어휘에서 핵심 단어– 힘 있는 단어 –를 선택하면 대화에서 우리가 원하는 결과에 따라 그 어휘를 사용하거나 피할 수 있습니다. 루빠rupa인 단어는 방아쇠 상태입니다.
Questions 질문
We discussed the issue of “burnout” or “compassion fatigue”. It is not really a matter of the therapist finding ways for self-protection, it is more a matter of learning to use all the energy that pertains to a session in that session and not carrying it away after the session has finished. This means being willing to share things before we really know what they mean. The inexperienced counsellor tends to hold back until confident that she is right in her interpretation, but this is usually too long and results in her carrying a load of emotion that never gets fully fed back into the session. This led to discussion of working with relatives of dying people in hospice situations where there may be many people all in various degrees of shock, emotion or denial and how the worker allows herself to be moved but not overwhelmed - the Buddhist art of equanimity.
우리는 "소진" 또는 "연민의 피로"문제를 토론했습니다. 치료자가 자기 보호를 위한 방법을 찾는 것이 진실로 문제가 아닙니다. 세션에서 세션에 관련된 모든 에너지를 사용하고 세션이 끝난 후에는 그것을 가지고 있지 않는 것이 더 중요합니다. 이것은 우리가 정말로 그것들이 의미하는 바를 알기 전에 기꺼이 공유한다는 것을 의미합니다. 경험이 부족한 치료자는 자신의 해석이 옳다는 확신이 들 때까지 뒤로 물러서는 경향이 있지만, 이것은 보통 너무 길어서 결코 세션에서 완전히 피드백 되지 않는 감정을 지니게 됩니다. 다양한 강도의 충격, 감정 또는 부정속에 많은 사람들이 놓여있을 수 있는 호스피스 상황에서 죽어가는 친척들과 작업하는 것에 대한 토론과 상담자가 감동받을 수는 있지만 압도당하지 않는 방법 – 불교의 평정의 기술.
Exercise 연습
Imagine making a film of one’s life. This is an exercise in identifying important rupas and secondary rupas in one’s life. We draw up the cast for a film of our life. With each character there are typical lines that they would say and there are important scenes in which they figured. These come to one’s mind spontaneously as soon as one calls the image of the significant other (rupa) to mind. This is an exercise in identifying rupas, and also in free association. The counsellor needs to cultivate a free mind that can associate easily.
자신의 일생에 대한 영화를 상상해보십시오. 이것은 중요한 루빠들과 자기 인생의 보조 루빠들을 확인하는 연습입니다. 우리는 우리 삶의 영화를 위해 출연자의 리스트를 작성합니다. 각각의 등장인물에게는 그들이 말할 수 있는 전형적인 선(라인)이 있으며, 그들이 등장하는 중요한 장면이 있습니다. 이들은 마음에 중요한 타자(루빠)의 이미지를 부르자마자 자발적으로 마음에 나타납니다. 이것은 루빠와 자유 연상을 확인하는 연습입니다. 상담자는 쉽게 연상할 수 있는 자유로운 마음을 키워야합니다.
Counselling Practice 상담 실습
Talking about issues and feelings raised by the previous exercise.
이전 연습에서 제기된 문제점 및 감정에 대해 이야기하기.