Talk
“The master within the master”
The client follows prompts that come from within. This is what is called a “felt sense” in the therapy method Focussing. Carl Rogers developed a theory of what is needed to be a good therapist. His colleague Gene Gendlin then developed a theory based on the question: What does one need in order to be a successful client? Gendlin’s answer was that one needs to pay attention to the felt sense and he set out to teach people how to do so. The felt sense is an inner prompt that comes spontaneously. It is not under the rational control of the person. The inner prompt of the client is the “king” in the therapy situation. However, the therapist also has to attend to her own inner prompts. If she is in empathy with the client she will resonate with the client and will start to experience things that are an infection of feeling from the client. Bringing these into the dialogue can also stimulate the client’s process, the therapist being a mirror. Within the parameters set by these intuitive prompts, client and therapist can use their rational faculty to try to make sense of what is arising. It is important, however, that the inner prompt remains “king” and the rational mind “minister” and not the other way round. This is not easy because anything that is not under our conscious control is an affront to the ego. The ego of the therapist wants to get back in control, but if this happens it leads to conflict and “resistance”. In order to get back into the flow the therapist has to let go of their “good idea” and let the intuitive messages take precedence.
Pairs
If one were to be client today, what would one work on?
Small Groups
Discuss the theoretical material of the morning talk and yesterday.
Fifth Demonstration Session
Presenting Issue
Anger. Client gets angry frequently whenever contradicted. He is suffering abdominal problems he believes to be connected to the anger.
The Work
Client talked about having received advice to counter his anger by practising laughing and smiling, which he does. Client mentioned particularly losing his temper with his younger brother and also mentioned the death of his father. The therapist reflected these items but they did not seem crucial. Client then continued with a series of reminiscences about childhood and early adulthood when, as the eldest son, he had been treated differently from his siblings. There were incidents of unfairness and of him being misunderstood and criticised unjustly. It was apparent from the client’s face that he was getting closer and closer to feelings of great distress. The therapist moved to one side and closer so as to support the client as he recalled more reminiscences. These included some successes as well as disappointments. He told briefly the story of his marriage, of plans to move house, of his own sons, of his business and of occasions when he had done things that pleased his mother who also had a difficult life.
Conclusion
The client experienced the connection between present anger and childhood sadness, disappointment and rage. The client’s tenderness toward his mother was acknowledged. There was some release of painful emotion and increased awareness of the connection between sadness and anger.
Points of Interest
1. Initially it seemed that the piece might generate scenes for action work. Although a great many scenes were presented, none individually seemed crucial. Rather they provided a tapestry of the client’s whole life, through which ran threads of recurring sadness and tenderness.
2. The therapist particularly supported the client’s expressions of sadness and disappointment, and associated pain, which appeared as the flip-side of his anger. However, the therapist also showed enjoyment in listening to the client’s accounts of his successes, even though these were also mostly laced with pathos.
3. The client has learnt how to convert his misfortunes into amusing stories and this is a valuable social skill but not a remedy for the suppressed tears.
4. The crucial element in this session was the rapport the therapist managed to establish and the understanding shown for the painful aspect of the client’s life.
5. One can assume that some degree of father transference was happening. This demands that the therapist act as the good father so that there is a reparative experience.
6. The therapist should avoid pushing too hard for more and more tears. Once the client has achieved something it can be better to consolidate it then to press for more.
7. We discussed the problem of what happens if the therapist were to become identified with one of the auxiliary figures rather than the client himself. The problems presented in this case were grounded in a classical Korean family structure in which the eldest son has a special role which is often burdensome to him and which provokes envy from the other siblings. A therapist from this culture might well have difficulty seeing things from a position different from their own. We talked about the need for experience of the perspective of all positions. One does not abandon one’s experience but one must not hold to it so tightly that one cannot understand other viewpoints.
8. We also discussed how a session moves on. The therapist can be still holding onto a diagnosis that was correct ten minutes ago, but the client has now moved on to a new perspective or aspect. Keeping up with the client without losing track of how he got there is challenging. One cannot hope to understand every small turn of he client’s mind. One simply does the best one can.
Small Groups
Reflecting upon the ideas and work done.
Six, Seventh & Eighth Demonstration Sessions
Three short sessions
Sixth Session: Client talked about changes in her interaction with her husband resulting from learning how to accommodate each other’s very different styles of dealing with issues. When they do not try to "fix" each other there is less conflict and more scope for tenderness.
Seventh Session: Client talked about memories that have surfaced during this workshop of critical incidents in her childhood that shaped her attitude to life leaving tendencies, on the one hand, to feel useless and incapable and, on the other hand, an obsession with preparing everything minutely so as to appear as perfect as possible. Client experienced much emotion while recounting these stories, and also spoke of her difficulty in understanding why these memories have remained dark to her until now.
Eighth Session: Client shared her anxiety and grief about Dr Brazier’s illness and the possibility that “we may lose you” and shared how this reactivated a grief for another person in her life in the past who died.
Points of Interest
1. In all three cases the therapist deeply appreciated the trust shown by the clients in sharing these experiences.
2. In the eighth session the therapist suggested that the client give more thought to the old grief and then have another session in the next couple of days. This separated the two issues.
3. Sometimes the significant rupa is the therapist and the therapist needs to have sufficient objectivity and lack of self-consciousness to respond in the same way as would be the case if the rupa were somebody else.
4. The three cases express aspects of the drama and pathos of ordinary life - marital relations, social relations and loss. Each has a dramatic and moving quality and there is a great value in sharing such experience and receiving confirmation of the significance of deep emotions.
5. In the seventh case it was apparent that some emotions had become frozen as a consequence of the incidents recounted and that their coming to the surface now was a sign of the frozenness melting.
6. The therapist suggested to the seventh client that she perhaps feels compassion for the child that she had been. This provoked a new flow of emotion and understanding.
7. These clients were all well motivated and warmed up. We talked about how to connect with unmotivated or hostile clients. There is always some way of making a connection but it may be hard to find. One has to get alongside something that is important to the client which may be something belonging to a different aspect of life from that which the therapist ultimately wants to address.
8. The seventh client later reported that several new insights had occurred to her since the session. This illustrates how the work goes on after the session. If a real shift has occurred, then it will go on having a domino effect in the client. The client will go on working, pondering, dreaming, and making new connections. The therapy, therefore, simply plants a seed that will go on growing in its own way. This also means that often “less is more”. A small change that is real is more effective than a seemingly more dramatic session that is merely superficial.
Replies
20170823 Course 3 Day 3 ~ 13th of 15 Day Training
Posted by David Brazier on August 23, 2017 at 13:48 in KOREA 2017
https://eleusis.ning.com/group/korea/forum/topics/course-3-day-3-13th-of-15-day-training
Translated in into Korean by Jaesung Kim
번역: 김재성
Talk
“The master within the master”
The client follows prompts that come from within. This is what is called a “felt sense” in the therapy method Focussing. Carl Rogers developed a theory of what is needed to be a good therapist. His colleague Gene Gendlin then developed a theory based on the question: What does one need in order to be a successful client? Gendlin’s answer was that one needs to pay attention to the felt sense and he set out to teach people how to do so. The felt sense is an inner prompt that comes spontaneously. It is not under the rational control of the person. The inner prompt of the client is the “king” in the therapy situation. However, the therapist also has to attend to her own inner prompts. If she is in empathy with the client she will resonate with the client and will start to experience things that are an infection of feeling from the client. Bringing these into the dialogue can also stimulate the client’s process, the therapist being a mirror. Within the parameters set by these intuitive prompts, client and therapist can use their rational faculty to try to make sense of what is arising. It is important, however, that the inner prompt remains “king” and the rational mind “minister” and not the other way round. This is not easy because anything that is not under our conscious control is an affront to the ego. The ego of the therapist wants to get back in control, but if this happens it leads to conflict and “resistance”. In order to get back into the flow the therapist has to let go of their “good idea” and let the intuitive messages take precedence.
설명
"왕 중의 왕" 主中主 (보경삼매가 47행)
내담자는 내부에서 오는 프롬프트(즉각적인 것)를 따른다. 이것은 포커싱Focussing 치료법에서 "느껴진 감각(felt sense)"라고 불리는 것이다. 칼 로저스Carl Rogers는 훌륭한 상담자가 되기 위해 필요한 것에 대한 이론을 개발했다. 그의 동료 유진 젠들린Gene Gendlin은 “성공적인 내담자가 되기 위해 무엇이 필요한가?”라는 질문에 근거한 이론을 발전시켰다, 젠들린의 대답은 느껴진 감각에 주의를 기울여야하고 사람들에게 그렇게 하는 방법을 가르치기 시작했다는 것이다. 느껴진 감각은 자발적으로 오는 내적인 프롬프트(즉각적인 것)이다. 그것은 사람의 이성적 통제 하에 있지 않다. 내담자의 내부 프롬프트는 치료 상황에서 "왕"이다. 그러나 상담자도 자신의 내면의 프롬프트에 주의를 기울여야 한다. 상담자가 내담자에게 공감한다면, 내담자와 공명하게 될 것이고, 내담자에게서 유해한 느낌에 감염된 것을 경험하기 시작할 것이다. 이것들을 대화로 가져올 때, 내담자의 과정을 자극할 수 있으며 치료자는 거울이 된다. 이러한 직관적인 프롬프트에 의해 설정된 매개 변수 안에서 내담자와 상담자는 합리적인 능력을 사용하여 발생하는 것을 이해하려고 할 수 있다. 그러나 내부의 메시지는 "왕"으로 남아 있고 합리적인 마음은 "장관"으로 남아 있어야 하며, 그 반대가 되지 않게 한다. 우리의 의식의 통제 아래 있지 않은 어떤 것이라도 그것은 에고에 대한 모욕이기 때문에 이렇게 하는 것은 쉽지 않다. 상담자의 에고는 다시 통제로 돌아가기를 원하지만, 이것이 일어난다면 그것은 갈등과 "저항"으로 이어진다. 흐름으로 되돌아가기 위해서 치료자는 자신의 "좋은 생각"을 내려놓고 직관적 인 메시지를 우선시해야한다.
Pairs
If one were to be client today, what would one work on?
2명의 짝
오늘 내가 내담자가 되면 무엇을 작업할까?에 대한 이야기를 나눔.
Small Groups
Discuss the theoretical material of the morning talk and yesterday.
소그룹(3~4명)
아침 설명과 어제의 작업에 대한 이론적인 내용에 대해 토론할 것.
Fifth Demonstration Session
Presenting Issue
Anger. Client gets angry frequently whenever contradicted. He is suffering abdominal problems he believes to be connected to the anger.
제 5 차 시연 세션
제시된 문제
분노. 내담자는 모순되는 상황을 경험할 때마다 자주 화를 낸다. 그는 분노와 관련이 있다고 생각하는 복부 문제로 괴로워하고 있다.
The Work
Client talked about having received advice to counter his anger by practising laughing and smiling, which he does. Client mentioned particularly losing his temper with his younger brother and also mentioned the death of his father. The therapist reflected these items but they did not seem crucial. Client then continued with a series of reminiscences about childhood and early adulthood when, as the eldest son, he had been treated differently from his siblings. There were incidents of unfairness and of him being misunderstood and criticised unjustly. It was apparent from the client’s face that he was getting closer and closer to feelings of great distress. The therapist moved to one side and closer so as to support the client as he recalled more reminiscences. These included some successes as well as disappointments. He told briefly the story of his marriage, of plans to move house, of his own sons, of his business and of occasions when he had done things that pleased his mother who also had a difficult life.
작업
내담자는 (이전의 상담자에게서) 웃고 미소 짓는 것을 연습해서 자신의 분노를 마주하라는 조언을 받았다는 것에 대해 이야기했다. 내담자는 특히 동생에게 성질을 내는 것에 대해서 말했고, 아버지의 죽음에 대해서도 언급했다. 치료자는 이러한 항목을 반영했지만 그것들은 결정적인 것은 아니었다. 내담자는 그 때 장남으로, 그의 형제자매와 다르게 대우받을 때의 유년기와 성년 초기에 관하여 일련의 회상과 함께 계속 말했다. 불공평한 사건과 부당하게 오해하고 비난받는 사건이 있었다. 내담자의 얼굴에서 그가 커다란 고통의 느낌에 더 가까워지고 있음이 분명했다. 치료자는 내담자 옆에 더 가까이 옮겨 앉았고, 내담자가 더 많은 회상을 기억하는 것을 지지했다. 여기에는 약간의 성공과 실망이 포함되어 있었다. 그는 자신의 결혼 이야기, 집을 옮길 계획, 자신의 아들들, 사업 및 힘든 인생을 살아온 어머니를 기쁘게 하는 일을 했을 때를 간략하게 이야기했다.
Conclusion
The client experienced the connection between present anger and childhood sadness, disappointment and rage. The client’s tenderness toward his mother was acknowledged. There was some release of painful emotion and increased awareness of the connection between sadness and anger.
결론
내담자는 현재의 분노와 어린 시절의 슬픔, 실망과 분노 사이의 관계를 경험했다. 그의 어머니에 대한 내담자의 부드러움(정감)이 확인되었다. 어느 정도의 고통스러운 감정에서 벗어남과 슬픔과 분노 사이의 연결에 대한 증가된 자각이 있었다.
Points of Interest
1. Initially it seemed that the piece might generate scenes for action work. Although a great many scenes were presented, none individually seemed crucial. Rather they provided a tapestry of the client’s whole life, through which ran threads of recurring sadness and tenderness.
2. The therapist particularly supported the client’s expressions of sadness and disappointment, and associated pain, which appeared as the flip-side of his anger. However, the therapist also showed enjoyment in listening to the client’s accounts of his successes, even though these were also mostly laced with pathos.
3. The client has learnt how to convert his misfortunes into amusing stories and this is a valuable social skill but not a remedy for the suppressed tears.
4. The crucial element in this session was the rapport the therapist managed to establish and the understanding shown for the painful aspect of the client’s life.
5. One can assume that some degree of father transference was happening. This demands that the therapist act as the good father so that there is a reparative experience.
6. The therapist should avoid pushing too hard for more and more tears. Once the client has achieved something it can be better to consolidate it then to press for more.
7. We discussed the problem of what happens if the therapist were to become identified with one of the auxiliary figures rather than the client himself. The problems presented in this case were grounded in a classical Korean family structure in which the eldest son has a special role which is often burdensome to him and which provokes envy from the other siblings. A therapist from this culture might well have difficulty seeing things from a position different from their own. We talked about the need for experience of the perspective of all positions. One does not abandon one’s experience but one must not hold to it so tightly that one cannot understand other viewpoints.
8. We also discussed how a session moves on. The therapist can be still holding onto a diagnosis that was correct ten minutes ago, but the client has now moved on to a new perspective or aspect. Keeping up with the client without losing track of how he got there is challenging. One cannot hope to understand every small turn of he client’s mind. One simply does the best one can.
관심 있는 점
1. 처음에는 그 작업이 행동 작업을 위한 장면을 생성할 것으로 보였다. 비록 많은 장면이 제시되었지만, 개별적으로 결정적인 장면은 없었다. 오히려 그 장면들은 내담자의 전체 삶에 대한 태피스트리(다양한 모습)를 제공 했는데, 이를 통해 끊임없는 슬픔과 부드러움의 실을 풀어냈다.
2. 치료자는 특히 슬픔과 실망에 대한 내담자의 표현과 그의 분노의 다른 면(flip-side)으로 나타나는 관련된 통증을 지지했다. 그러나 치료자는 또한 내담자의 성공에 대한 이야기를 경청하면서 즐거움을 보였다. 비록 이런 이야기들이 비애감(pathos)을 동반하고 있었지만.
3. 내담자는 자신의 불행을 재미있는 이야기로 전환하는 법을 배웠으며, 이는 귀중한 사회적 기술이지만 억압된 눈물에 대한 처방은 아니다.
4. 이 세션에서 결정적인 요소는 상담자가 관리할 수 있는 라포와 내담자의 인생의 고통스러운 측면에 대한 이해를 보여준 것이다.
5. 어느 정도의 아버지 전이가 있었다고 생각할 수 있다. 이 전이를 통해 치료자는 좋은 아버지로 행동하여 (내담자에게) 보상해주는 경험이 되었다.
6. 치료자는 점점 더 많은 눈물이 흘러나오지 않도록 억제하는 것을 피해야 한다. 내담자가 뭔가를 얻은 후에는 그것을 통합하면서 더 많은 것을 누르는 것이 더 나을 수 있다.
7. 우리는 상담자가 내담자 자신이 아닌 보조자 중 한 명과 동일시 될 경우 어떤 일이 일어나는가에 대한 문제를 논의했다. 이 케이스에서 제기된 문제는 장남이 종종 부담스럽고, 다른 형제자매로부터 시기심을 불러일으키는 특수한 역할을 하는 전통적인 한국의 가족 구조에 기초를 두고 있다. 이 문화에 속한 상담자라면 자기 자신과 다른 입장에서 사물을 보는 것이 어려울 수도 있다. 우리는 모든 위치의 관점의 경험에 대한 필요성에 관해 이야기했다. 우리는 자신의 경험을 포기하지 않지만, 다른 관점을 이해할 수 없도록 자신의 관점을 너무 강하게 붙잡아서는 안 된다.
8. 우리는 또한 세션이 어떻게 진행되는지에 대해서도 논의했다. 상담자는 10분 전 상황에 맞는 진단을 계속 붙잡고 있을 수 있지만, 내담자가 이제 새로운 관점이나 측면으로 옮겼다. 내담자가 어떻게 거기에 왔는지에 대한 자취를 잃지 않으면서 내담자를 따라 잡는 것은 어려운 일입니다. 우리는 내담자가 생각하는 모든 작은 변화를 다 이해하기를 희망할 수 없다. 우리는 단지 할 수 있는 최선을 다하는 것이다.
Small Groups
Reflecting upon the ideas and work done.
소그룹
아이디어들과 진행된 작업을 되돌아 볼 것.
Six, Seventh & Eighth Demonstration Sessions
Three short sessions
First Session: Client talked about changes in her interaction with her husband resulting from learning how to accommodate each other’s very different styles of dealing with issues. When they do not try to "fix" each other there is less conflict and more scope for tenderness.
여섯 번째, 일곱 번째 및 여덟 번째 시연 세션
세 번의 짧은 세션
첫 번째 세션 : 내담자는 서로 다른 스타일의 문제를 해결하는 방법을 배우면서 남편과의 상호 작용에 대한 변화에 대해 이야기했다. 그들이 서로를 "고치려고"하지 않으면 갈등이 적어지고 부드러움이 더 넓어진다.
Second Session: Client talked about memories that have surfaced during this workshop of critical incidents in her childhood that shaped her attitude to life leaving tendencies, on the one hand, to feel useless and incapable and, on the other hand, an obsession with preparing everything minutely so as to appear as perfect as possible. Client experienced much emotion while recounting these stories, and also spoke of her difficulty in understanding why these memories have remained dark to her until now.
두 번째 세션 : 내담자는 이 워크숍 동안에 떠올랐고, 삶에 대한 태도를 형성한 어린 시절의 중요한 사건의 추억에 대해 말하면서 한편으로는 쓸모없고 무능함을 느끼게 하고 한편으로는 모든 것을 최대한 완벽하게 보이도록 세심하게 준비하는 것에 집착한다. 내담자는 이 이야기들을 자세히 말하면서 많은 감정을 느꼈고, 지금까지 이 기억이 왜 지금까지 어둠 속에 남아 있었는지 이해하는 데 어려움을 겪었음을 말했다.
Third Session: Client shared her anxiety and grief about Dr Brazier’s illness and the possibility that “we may lose you” and shared how this reactivated a grief for another person in her life in the past who died.
세 번째 세션 : 내담자는 Brazier 박사의 병에 대한 불안과 슬픔, 그리고 "우리가 당신을 잃을지 모른다."는 가능성에 대해 이야기하고, 이것이 어떻게 과거 그녀의 삶에서 죽었던 다른 사람에 대한 슬픔을 다시 활성화시켰는지 공유했다.
Points of Interest
1. In all three cases the therapist deeply appreciated the trust shown by the clients in sharing these experiences.
2. In the third session the therapist suggested that the client give more thought to the old grief and then have another session in the next couple of days. This separated the two issues.
3. Sometimes the significant rupa is the therapist and the therapist needs to have sufficient objectivity and lack of self-consciousness to respond in the same way as would be the case if the rupa were somebody else.
4. The three cases express aspects of the drama and pathos of ordinary life - marital relations, social relations and loss. Each has a dramatic and moving quality and there is a great value in sharing such experience and receiving confirmation of the significance of deep emotions.
5. In the second case it was apparent that some emotions had become frozen as a consequence of the incidents recounted and that their coming to the surface now was a sign of the frozenness melting.
6. The therapist suggested to the second client that she perhaps feels compassion for the child that she had been. This provoked a new flow of emotion and understanding.
7. These clients were all well motivated and warmed up. We talked about how to connect with unmotivated or hostile clients. There is always some way of making a connection but it may be hard to find. One has to get alongside something that is important to the client which may be something belonging to a different aspect of life from that which the therapist ultimately wants to address.
8. The second client later reported that several new insights had occurred to her since the session. This illustrates how the work goes on after the session. If a real shift has occurred, then it will go on having a domino effect in the client. The client will go on working, pondering, dreaming, and making new connections. The therapy, therefore, simply plants a seed that will go on growing in its own way. This also means that often “less is more”. A small change that is real is more effective than a seemingly more dramatic session that is merely superficial.
관심 있는 점
1. 세 가지 경우 모두에서 치료자는 내담자가 이러한 경험을 공유하는 것으로 보여준 신뢰를 깊이 고마워했다.
2. 세 번째 세션에서 치료자는 내담자가 오래된 슬픔에 대해 더 많은 생각을 한 다음 며칠 후에 다른 세션을 가질 것을 제안했다. 이것으로 두 문제가 분리되었다.
3. 때로는 중요한 루빠가 상담자이며, 상담자는 루빠가 다른 누군가 였을 때와 같은 방식으로 반응하기 위해 충분한 객관성과 자기의식을 내려놓는 것이 필요하다.
4. 세 가지 경우는 결혼 관계, 사회적 관계 및 상실과 같은 일상적인 삶의 드라마의 측면과 비애를 표현한다. 각각은 극적이고 감동적인 특질을 가지고 있으며, 그러한 경험을 공유하고 깊은 감정의 중요성에 대한 확신을 얻는 것에는 큰 가치가 있다.
5. 두 번째 사례에서는 사건의 결과로 일부 감정이 얼어붙었으며, 그 감정이 표면으로 나타나는 것은 얼어붙음이 녹는 신호였음이 분명했다.
6. 치료자는 두 번째 내담자에게 자신의 어린 시절의 아이에게 연민(자비심)을 느끼라고 제안했다. 이것은 감정과 이해의 새로운 흐름을 불러 일으켰다.
7. 이 내담자들은 모두 잘 동기 부여가 되었고 워밍업이 되어 있었다. 우리는 동기 부여가 없거나 적대적인 내담자와 연결하는 방법에 대해 이야기했다. 항상 연결을 만드는 어떤 방법이 있지만 찾을 수 없을 수도 있다. 치료자가 궁극적으로 다루고 싶어 하는 것과는 다른 삶의 측면에 속할 수도 있지만, 내담자에게 중요한 어떤 것과 함께 작업해야 한다.
8. 두 번째 내담자는 세션 이후 그녀에게 몇 가지 새로운 통찰이 생겼다고 보고했다. 이것은 세션 후에 어떻게 작업이 진행되는지 보여준다. 실제 변화가 발생하면 내담자에서 도미노 효과가 발생한다. 내담자는 일하고, 숙고하고, 꿈꾸며, 새로운 관계를 맺을 것이다. 그러므로 치료는 자신의 방식으로 자라는 씨를 심는 작업이다. 이것은 또한 종종 "적은 것이 더 많음"을 의미한다. 실제적인 작은 변화는 더 극적인 세션처럼 보이지만 단지 피상적인 세션보다 효과적이다.